For the history I know, the northern part of Sri Lanka has been under constant attack from Indian invaders - mostly Tamil. So time to time they have been ruling the north but eventually a southerner would go and win back the land. Let it aside so the historians could debate on whose native land is it. Put aside the manipulations of Tamil minds to make them want a separate country.
I’m pretty sure there are Tamils who honestly believe north and the east of Sri Lanka is their’s. The reason is not I ponder about neither the fact whether it’s possible.
Let’s hypothetically think that they get the separate country. Done. No war. There’s a border separating south from north and east.
The south - the smaller Sri Lanka retains it’s capital and all the critical cities of economical importance. All the industries which produce the income would prosper without the war and more investors would probably come because the war is no more. Tourism would flourish and so forth.
But what would be the situation in the “Elam”? Right now, the LTTE gets most of it’s funds through illegal business like arms smuggling, drug trafficking and stuff like that. Would the economy of the Elam be based on these? Irrigation and farming would be one option but could they run a country just with that? Surly Norway, Canada and other pro-LTTE community would provide funds for uplifting other industries. But do they have the resources to invest those funds on? They now don’t have a proper educational system nor a proper governance structure. Surely, some of the educated Tamils now abroad would come to help. But how effective would it be? Hmm… to top all, there could be political battles and a misery in the administration. And that’s like only the economical aspect of it. What about the social aspect? There’s a huge gap left there as well.
All in all, I think what they are fighting for is a worse misery than what they are already in.
Very good point. Majority of the Tamils do understand this reality, they dont want a separate state, they dont have any issue with Sinhalese. Majority is just worried about LTTE terrorism doing a war under their name. LTTE is just a terrorist entity, doesnt have peoples backing. People in North/East want food, transport and every basics and not a separate state.
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand, its theorotically incorrect to think of a Tamil state within SL. As Mahasen mentioned, tamils from India came and ruled it occationaly, but it was always a part of SL. Tamil ruling were just foriegn (indian) invasions, they cant be considered as Tamil kingdoms. Sinhalese do not live anywhere else in ths world except SL, so SL is their base. Tamils have a separate base, thats thamlinadu, in india. See the name, thats the tamil land. See the name Sri Lanka and previous name Sinhale, thats the Sinhala land. So, in case Tamils want a country for them, theorotically, practically and historically right place is thamilnadu. India knows this, that why they are careful in handling this.
LTTE is not a result of a thoughful decision to go for a separate country, its just a terrorist group that mushroomed out of Jaffna initially started by Jobless people like prabha. So, they didnt have any clue abt history or right to ask for a separate land. People who have read about LTTE know this, I personally have read.
However, LTTE cant be eliminated from the problem now, the solution should involve them, as long as they hold arms, you have to get them invloved. War is not the solution, pushing them to the peacetable is the way out. During this process, whatever discrimainations faced by tamils could be solved, but under one country.
I agree except for the part where Tamils are discriminated. There clearly was a discrimination. But it wasn't because of they being Tamil. It was purely because of the geographic location and concentration of economy to the western province. Most other parts of the country faced the same discrimination, but the short sighted politicians stipulated the Tamils in the north and east to think that they are being discriminated purely because they are Tamils to get political advantage over them.
ReplyDeleteThe result is this devastating war and the north and east being left out in the development of rest of the country.
I still believe that the true solution for this conflict is more economical than political. But political differences has to be solved before moving forward.
The only tamils from India to rule Sri Lanka are all the so called Kandyan Royal family. Look at Ranil, he is a tamil chetty.
ReplyDeleteThe forefathers of the so called sinhalese buddisht leaders prostituted their beliefs and religion to get favurs from the british. SWRD is solom wesely dias bandayake. How come he converts to buddishm and all is settled. He had 1200 acres of land. How did his forefathers get that. Why did he not give this land to his fellow sinhalese people. He by the way descends from a malayalee family in kerela India just like Mahinda.
The Jaffna Tamils managed to succed without the help of religious conversion (although there were those who converted and benifited). They were made scapegoats by the opportunist sonhalese politicians. No Tamil wanted an eelam till then.
Sri Lanka was a seperate country and not for the colonialist it would never have been a country. If the British had merged it under the Madras Presidency, it would have been logical for it to be part of India like the Andaman Nicobar Islands.
The Tamils will never forget all the riots. The burning of the Jaffna Libary was the worst humiliation metted out to the tamils. There can never be one country any longer. It would make the deaths and scarifices of many people to waste.
There is no eelam today only because India does not want a seperate state for its own territorial considerations. Most sinhalese are of Dravidian origin. Karukaretnam became karukaretnae.
The South has been fed will alot of propaganda and bullshit over the years. If you want things to happen do not sit behind a keyboard. The poor sinhalese boys who see no merit in defending Jaffna, see soldering as their means of survival.They would have let their feelings known if they could acess a computer and blog.
There was a comment that North and East cannot survive if they went alone. Its only racist policies that has led to major developments in the South. Even the Tsunami Aid has not fully reached the Tamils.
The richest man is Malaysia is a Jaffna tamil. Many leaders of Singapore till today are Jaffna Tamil. The Chinese has shown much more intelligence in working with the Jaffna tamils to develop the country.
The Number 1 Airlines, Airport and Port are the brianchild of 2 Jaffna tamils in Singapore. The first Sex change operation and intro fertilisation in Asia was done by a Jaffna tamil in Hartely. The list goes on.
The racist policies caused eelam. People who do not understand religion will use it to sway others who do not understand the religion. Buddha was from India. His thoughts have invaded many minds in Sri Lanka. Funny, nobody has asked buddishm to be kicked out of Sri Lanka. Rather they want the whole country to indulge in it.
Whatever said, do you think even if Eelam was built on good industries etc, there will be no threat to Sri Lanka? I do not see that happening. We will have bigger problems than war!
ReplyDeleteIm not exactly sure what are you trying to get at by saying that NE doesnt have an 'economy'. They dont now.
ReplyDeleteFor all you know, Japan is a country which has the least amount of raw materials within the country but still is a leader in manufacturing. You can always import, process and export. I'd say it'd be a thriving economy. You dont have to run on irrigation and farming.
Hiran why do you say it will be a threat to Sri Lanka? or more specifically what kind of threat could it pose?
ReplyDeleteOn the intelligence of the Jaffna Tamils there’s no question. It has been a norm. Many have achieved much in so many fields. But are they all willing to come back and help build a home land in the north and east? The entire educational system is wrecked in NE, how long would it take to recover and produce a new generation of Tamil scholars?
ReplyDeleteWouldn’t it be easier if the central government of sri lanka would provide you with the socio economical background while you build your own infrastructure and administrations? What advantage would you have by having a separate country?
Many have died. Sinhalese, Tamils, Muslims alike. But should the killings continue just because other have died. Those who died either died for no reason - like the Buddhist monks died in Aranthalawa, or the Buddhists died in Anuradhapura in the attack at Sri Mahabhodi, Tamils who got caught in between fire - or died for a cause they believed in - like the SLA and LTTE soldiers. If a Tamil feels that his blood relatives have died for an Elam, so do we sinhalese feel that our blood relatives have died to protect our country and relatives. That’s war. How many more should die for the Elam or for a united Sri Lanka?
I believe despite of the origins of a person whether it be Malayalam, Dravidian or Aryan, it’s that person’s actions that make him who he is. And people do change. People have the ability to change their actions thus who they are. Leaders are also human, they do make mistakes, only the great leaders accept when they do make mistakes.
I still claim the discriminations faced by people in North and the East are not because they were Tamil. If any one feels that way ask your self the question whether the Sinhalese and the Muslims in the north and east were treated any better by the central government in Colombo?
If you ultimately win your Elam, it would be over many more thousands of dead bodies of Sinhalese and Tamils alike. And to rebuild North and East at least what it was before the war would take a couple of more decades. The only difference in that would be a feeling of victory for those who survive and a many a thousand dead bodies below your feet.
Mahasen....how many controversial discussions do you want to startup!!!!! I only saw this just now..not sure how I am going to keep up with all this :-)
ReplyDeleteI would refrain from starting more till these two threads stop attracting new comments. The reason I wanted to talk about these issues is that many see Sinhalese extremists to be anti-tamil. We are not. We are anti-terrorist who want our rights as a race to be preserved. We see the fact that people in the North and the East have faced problems in the past and are facing now. We see the solution to be not war not a separate country but an unitary country with equal distribution of socio economical resources and ability to all races to coexist preserving their individual values.
ReplyDeleteMahasen, Everyone is intelligent. Its based on opportunities to accquire knowledge. The country has gone through so many upheveals. When the Singapore PM came to Sri Lanka in 1960s, he said he wanted Singapore to be like Sri Lanka. Today Sri Lanka wants to emulate Singapore.
ReplyDeleteSingapore had race riots until it split with Malaysia. This was proposed by the Malaysian PM at that time. This was even though Chinese were immigrants to Singapore. The riots between the Malays(the natives) and Chinese was becoming too frequent.
Today both Malaysia and Singapore are flourishing. This is the only solution for Sri Lanka.
"Sinhalese extremists"...well the word extremist...means extreme values and positions. You call yourself one, and I have to say, looking at the way you present your ideas...you are not one. Would you call yourself an extremist? And what sort of extreme views do you think you have?
ReplyDeleteI believe you are very confused with the crazy stuff that is happening around you I don't blame you. You find some really good ideas presented by the Sinhala extremists, and the other mob are completely lacking in ideas.
Unfortunately I don't live in Sri lanka, so I don't know much about the alternatives to the UNP or the SLFP. The Tamils are I think in an even worse position these days. The TULF and Douglas Devananda's crowd appear to be on the payroll of Ranil and now Mahinda.
I have met many sinhalese who truly care for the future of their people and are not anti-Tamil. Being just Sinhalese, caring for your people and being justly proud of your cutural heritage does not mean you have to be a racist or an extremist.
I am a Tamil, I am proud of my culture and heritage, and I care about whats happening to my people too. But I don't feel I have to hold an extreme position to do this. But I suppose it is easier for me to be this way, since I don't live in Sri Lanka.
Actually, I don't think you can be a buddhist and a racist and an extremist. A person who follows the true teachings of the Buddha...cannot be a racist. The two are mutually exclusive.
ReplyDeleteI can tell you almost all religions are like this. That is why I don't want to support any politician who holds racist or extreme views.
I give in to that comment L, but that's how we are labelled here by the main stream politicians. Any one who speaks about Sinhala rights is a Sinhala racist, as if rights are exclusive only for the minorities.
ReplyDeleteIf you take it in that sense, Sihala Urumaya is not an extremist political party either. But that’s how they have been labelled.
It amuses me the way the Sinhalese go on and on to claim that they are different and thus separate from the Tamils. Get with the program, there is no way on earth that this island could have been so close to India and not have been inhabited by people from there. We want to perpetuate the myth that we originated from North India, when we look nothing like them, our language, food, physical attributes are closer to Tamil Nadu and Kerala. So essentially we are all South Indians who only very recently after colonialism came in and brain washed us on the divide and rule concept have swallowed hook line and sinker this difference theory that is now killing us!
ReplyDeleteWe have discriminated against the Tamils, its now too late to do anything but give them Eelam, at least the killings and butchery will stop. I am not a Tamil but I certainly don't believe that we should continue to suffer like this for a concept that has no historical claim - meaning that Sinhalese are the true claimants to Sri Lanka. The Sinhalese are as much Tamil as the Tamil are Sinhalese.
You ask why do Tamils keep fighting for a separate state, when they know that if they win they will have no infrastructure or anything to start with.
ReplyDeleteTo put it in perspective, let's say tomorrow India invades Sri Lanka and wants to make Sri Lanka a part of India. Ignoring international help etc, let's say all Sri Lankans get together and fight them for 25 years.
After 25 years of war, we would probably have no infrastructure to speak of. Would we still fight, or would we give in to India simply because rebuilding our country after the war would be too hard?
I am Sinhalese but I think Tamil Eelam, if it ever comes into existence, will far outdo Sri Lanka. Firstly there are the 60 million Tamils in India who will contribute towards the development of Eelam. Secondly the fact that everywhere you go, Tamils are working hard and prospering. Go to Pettah, all the traders are Tamil. Check out Wellawatte. It's an economy of its own. More high-rise blocks are coming up in Wellawatte than any other part of Colombo.
In my opinion, Tamil Eelam will be a damn sight more prosperous than Sri Lanka. They will develop their own little Singapore there, while Sri Lanka keeps sinking down.
What anon at 3:05pm said is actually right. Racialy we are the same.
ReplyDeleteThe reason people advocate a seperate state now, is that too much has happened,trust has been lost and it is now almost impossible for these two areas in the North-East and the South to work as one. I saw a proposal recently that the two areas operate as seperate states for about 50 years, develop separately and then come together after that as a federation.
Since white settlement in 1788, Australia actually came together as a Federation only about 100 years ago. Tasmania, Queensland etc. were operating loosely as seperate entities.
One difference between Sihala Urumaya and the Tamil parties are that Tamil parties are secular. Christians, Hindus, and in the past muslims (I am not sure what the situation is now), have formed political groups as Tamil speaking people and in the North and East, even the Sinhalese who settled there learnt to speak Tamil. They were not forced to speak Tamil by a law that was imposed on them. People learnt the language to be able to communicate and relate to each other. Unfotunately since the war, with the divide and rule tactics employed by the government, this situation has changed. Before the government colonised the east with Sinhalese people, there have never been riots by Tamils against Sinhalese or muslims. And the same would be said about the North, until the War.
ReplyDeleteThe southern politicians on the other hand have tended to mix religion and politics from independence and forced people to learn sinhalese and opportunisticaly fanned racial hatred. Riots against Tamils living peacefully in the south were carried out by sinhalese and they had to flee to the North/East to find refuge. Riots against muslims were also carried out by sinhalese. This occured well before the LTTE existed. This is where the accusation of racial discrimination comes in. These people were living in the same area as sinhalese people but were singled out. Even in "Tamil" Nadu, they never had a language law like the Sinhala only act.
I hope sinhalese people will learn from the past, and see that this sort of nationalism has been tried before and has worked to the detriment of the country.
Hypothetically speaking, a sovereign and independent Tamil Eelam would not continue to receive the sort of support from the Tamils from the refugee diaspora and Tamil Nadu. They would no longer have an enemy ie: Sinhalese, to unite them. Hundreds of thousands of Tamil asylum seekrs (read: economic migrants) will have to return to "Eelam" against their will. LTTE will not be able to run a democratic Eelam. Sri Lankan government will surely fund anti-LTTE parties and insurgent groups in Eelam to destablise it. LTTE would be under pressure by donors and human rights groups to allow democratic dissent. Sooner or later, Eelam Tamils would no longer be willing to live under a dictatorship when there is no war with the Sinhalese to justify it.
ReplyDeleteSinhalese will never surrender the East. A Tamil Eelam cannot exist without the East. North is an arid desert useless for any purpose except for being a nuclear waste dump.
The Tamil diaspora would be naturalised in their adopted countries and will no longer have much interest in Eelam. On the other hand there would be a lot of opposition to Tamils in the South and many would be forced to either leave for Eelam or assimilate. In fact many Tamils in the South have already been Sinhalised and this process will be accelerated.
The global left and human rights groups that support the "rebels" and "freedom fighters" will no longer have the same romantic inclination to help the Eelam state. Instead they will agitate against the Eelam government and Western nations that allow LTTE members to engage in organised crime and extortion will no longer tolerate that.
L, you're a dickhead. The Sinhala only act was only in effect from 1956 to 59 and it only replaced English with Sinhala as the official language. Tamil did not have any place before 1956 anyway. The Tamil language special provisions act in 1959 allowed Tamils to use their language in Tamil majority areas so this certainly was not the cause of the problem. In Malaysia, where two million Tamils live, Malay is the only official language and Tamil is not used by the government or in schools at all.
Sinhalese were displaced from the East and it was colonised with Tamil labourers from Southern India by the British. The Sri Lankan governments have only tried to reverse this after 1948 and it's perfectly justifiable. If Tamils are allowed to live in the South why can't the Sinhalese live in the North and the East. It's the racist Tamils that do not understand this.
Yup.
ReplyDeleteJM Bardo should be changed to Nostradamus :-)
JM Bardo,
ReplyDeleteIn Singapore Tamil is an official language. Two tamils in Singapore and India are the presidents.
The fact is that sinhalese politicians have no excuse to loot and defraud their people. Most sinhalese politicians themselves are not sinhalese by the mahavamsa defintion of the sinhalese origins.
Malaysia allowed Singapore to leave it believing that Singapore will come begging for its survival. However Singapore flourished. Its not the natural resources that are important, its how well you use them that is.
Let there be a tamil eelam and let the bloodshed end. The tamils never wanted an eelam. Its the after effects of sinhala extremisim mixed with religion.
Why are you not abandoning buddishm which was a foreign concept.
I humbly request all to refrain from using abusive words in addressing each other. Other than that this is a very good constructive conversation from every one. I thank you all for contributing to it
ReplyDeleteTo whoever talking about a separate tamil state, my question is, Why do you want to create that in Sri Lanka and not in Tamilnadu? Thats the suitable place for the course historically, theorotically and practically. As someone mentioned before SL is the Sinhala base whereas Tamilnadu is the Tamil base. For those who dont want such a separate state, we can live peacefully in SL as we have done for centuries,majority of Sinhalese dont have any issue with Tamils and majority of Tamils dont have any issue with Sinhalese.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteYou cannot compare Singapore with Sri Lanka. Chinese are not unique or native to Singapore as the Malays and Sinhalese are to Malaysia and Sri Lanka.
The Singapore government forcibly makes people of different races live together to make sure that there are no ethnic enclaves within Singapore. Sri Lankan government does the same in the East, and you call the colonisation.
No one is keeping you in Sri Lanka. Go to Tamil Nadu and have your Tamil nation, independence, self determination and all that there. This is our country and you don't have any more rights here than what you would have in any other country where you're a minority. If you don't like our rules, pack your bags, but you aren't taking our land with you.
JM Bardo,
ReplyDeleteI have questioned Mahasen and he has been patient and tried to give me some answers to the best of his abilities.
Some questions for you:
1. Could you please provide me some evidence as to the fact that the singapore government forcibly makes people of different races live together to make sure that there are no ethnic enclaves within Singapore.
2. Sinhalese were displaced from the East and it was colonised with Tamil labourers from Southern India by the British.
The debate here is interesting but age old. There seems to be a barrier that we face and we can't seem to surmount. The Sinhalese have a persecution complex, think that the minorities live in Sri Lanka by their gracious will and should be deferent, humble and grateful. That is the crux of the problem. All citizens should be equal regardless of religion or ethnic affiliation. If some citizens feel discriminated against, we as a responsible government should address their fears - instead of telling them to pack their bags and leave or shut up and take it. It pains me that Buddhism that is such a detached and complex philosophy has given rise to a group of people who screech in its name to shed blood in the name of territorial integrity. Technically I believe as a Buddhist that we are here for a short time, and the last thing we should be shouting for is territorial integrity blah blah blah as it really wont matter to us once we are dead and gone.
ReplyDeleteSA:
ReplyDeleteIf some citizens feel discriminated against, we as a responsible government should address their fears - instead of telling them to pack their bags and leave or shut up and take it
SA, I know it is painful, but some consolation...I don't think JM Bardot can be taken as the oracle of all that is Sinhalese. Especially if you look carefully through his/her concoction. This is just an internet blog anyway. I wouldn't take what everyone says here seriously.
I have learnt how to sift out the you-know-what.